Talk:Neil Gaiman

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Potential vandalism?

it looks like someone has find and replaced every instance of "Gaiman" with "gayman" PatShutUp (talk) 07:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It has been fixed. Commander Keane (talk) 08:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scientology

As well as expanding on the allegations of sexual assaults the recent Vulture piece has more about Gaiman's early work for the Church of Scientology, and his treatment under that organisation's rues, by his father. Should we add something? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:27, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, especially with the mention that his parents were close friends of the Founder and forced out in a coup. There is a lot of reporting in the new Vulture article that could be integrated into the article. Some of the allegations in particular, as outlined, are extraordinarily evil if true and worth inclusion. The allegations include paying women >$400,000 for therapy, nonconsensual BDSM (slave/master dynamic), assaulting women in front of his son (grim).

General consensus from the perennial source board is that Rolling Stone's opinion pieces and reviews, as well as any contentious statements regarding living persons, should only be used with attribution.Rolling Stone's opinion pieces and reviews, as well as any contentious statements regarding living persons, should only be used with attribution". Rolling Stone article Rolling Stone's opinion pieces and reviews, as well as any contentious statements regarding living persons, should only be used with attribution".] piece in question. The allegations are largely made by people who identify themselves. I don't want to make these contentious changes. Gaiman says the article is an attack by Palmer as a negotiation tact in their divorce and custody battle.

Additionally, I think there is something odd about having "Other personal relationships" include both his wife and child, and devoting more words in the same section to Tori Amos. These do not feel equivalent to me and the stuff about his wife, child and he living NZ for years) belongs at the top of the Personal life details. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 23:33, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article's discussion of Neil Gaiman's father's involvement with Scientology should also be incorporated into the relevant article. There is also a brief comparison between Gaiman and Richard Madoc that should probably be incorporated into the article on The Sandman. With regards to the sexual assault allegations themselves, their sheer severity makes not including them a form of whitewashing. Considering the amount of coverage that the allegations are receiving, they are likely central to his notability going forward. ―Susmuffin ^Talk 08:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is strong justification to include the Scientology material on Gaiman's own page. It says The Ocean at the End of the Lane began as a therapeutic exercise, making it very relevant to his life and work. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 13:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not disagree with you, hence my usage of the word "also". ―Susmuffin ^Talk 00:27, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, my bad. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 01:04, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2025

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Change "As of 2013, Gaiman also resides in Cambridge, Massachusetts.[148] Since 2014 Gaiman has been a professor in the arts at Bard College, teaching courses in theatre and performance, written arts and experimental humanities.[149] At Bard he also serves on the advisory board for at the Fisher Center for the Performing Arts,[150] where he hosts public lectures and conversations with notable figures in the arts.[151]" to "From 2014-2017, Gaiman was a professor in the arts at Bard College, where he also served on the advisory board for at the Fisher Center for the Performing Arts." Jwlhuang (talk) 21:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ultraodan (talk) 05:15, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a source regarding the fact that Neil Gaiman no longer serves on the advisory board for the Fisher Center for the Performing Arts: https://fishercenter.bard.edu/about/leadership/ Jwlhuang (talk) 13:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Neil Gaiman’s child’s involvement not included in the sexual assault allegations?

This is included in both of the sources used for that section. I feel that if we’re gonna include the allegations made by multiple women, we should include how they said he exposed his child to such acts as well. JungleEntity (talk) 15:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is an ongoing conversation about this in the Scientology section above, where consensus seems to be developing that it should be added.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ImaginesTigers (talk • contribs) 16:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The queston is about "Neil Gaiman’s child’s involvement"; you're referring to "Neil Gaiman’s childhood involvement". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Response from Neil Gaiman

He has broken his silence about the allegations:

https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2025/01/breaking-silence.html

--2A04:4A43:909F:F990:B9B2:30E7:8464:2B28 (talk) 16:48, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the sexual assault section to include his denial of the allegations, I might've messed it up with saying it was the day after the article though, as it was just a quick look at the date of article and post, so I suggest someone double check that V. L. Mastikosa (talk) 17:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've added more detail on his response. I do not like that it is a primary source but, given how much traffic this article will get, I think it is important to include this detail right now. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 18:05, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

~~Wikipedia's policy on citing self-published blogs makes it clear that this case should be ok as it's written by the person in question (Gaiman).~~ Currently, it's not going to get any better than using the blog post, until he makes comments to secondary outlets regarding the scandal. It's also important to keep going forward, as it's the first public response he made to the allegations of sexual assault. V. L. Mastikosa (talk) 18:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@V. L. Mastikosa: What you have linked is not a policy; it is a deprecated essay. The correct policy to cite is WP:ABOUTSELF. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 19:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, thanks for correcting me, I'm still a novice when it comes to editing, still I stand by my other points for keeping it. V. L. Mastikosa (talk) 19:15, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

--This section should probably be re-written to use the NPR article, e.g., which references his blog, although citing the blog is also acceptable in this circumstance so long as there's no editorializing. Main concern here is providing interpretation, which I think, the phrase "categorically denied" does. N.B.: I would edit here, but don't want to clobber someone since this is a current event and no doubt active. Andwats (talk) 22:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed on NPR, and I'm sure other stuff will surface. I wrote "categorically" in the first place & happy to take it out. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 23:20, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hearsay

Amanda Palmer is an articulate and outspoken individual, and can make her own statement on the recent reports. The article should not include "quotes" from her which are not verifiably directly attributable to her. The Vulture is clearly happy using material from anonymous sources but such does not belong in an article here, particular one on a living person. See WP:BLPGOSSIP. --2A04:4A43:909F:F990:B9B2:30E7:8464:2B28 (talk) 14:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Missing a small bit at the end of the scientology section

The end of "Early life and education" notes that he met his first wife, Mary McGrath, while she was "studying scientology". Up to this point in the article, the discussion of scientology was entirely around his family and his young childhood, but it doesn't say anything about his involvement in the religious group into his adulthood. He was a recruiter for the church through a fair number of his adult years, which is why he met McGrath under those circumstances, because he was still fully involved in scientology at that point. Should this point be added to that end paragraph of the section? It seems like a confusing omission otherwise. Silver seren^C 04:29, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sexual Misconduct

I have removed an unreferenced section; "Beginning in 2024, several women accused Gaiman of sexual misconduct. This affected or halted production on several adaptations of his work." If this allegation has sufficient substance to meet the standards for a Wikipedia article, it can be re-added with citations that meet BoLP standards. As it was, it was just hearsay. Danylstrype (talk) 10:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is the summation of the article. There is a subsection, Neil Gaiman#Sexual assault and misconduct allegations, about this. And several discussions on this very talk page. Please check next time before unnecessarily removing content and claiming it was "just hearsay". soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 10:13, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]